Religion, spirituality, and personal growth

#1 Posted by Joely Black on January 23rd, 2009 4:09 pm | link

This is just brilliant. What a great way to show how we all mean the same things deep down. FAB.

#2 Posted by James | Dancing Geek on January 23rd, 2009 5:04 pm | link

Reason #54872 that you guys are fabulous – a discussion of religion that makes sense! And me and “religion” and “church” (that is, the words) have a history that pushes all kinds of buttons so that takes some doing.

#3 Posted by chris zydel on January 23rd, 2009 5:58 pm | link

Hi Pace,

What a fabulous post. I love how you make the distinction between religion and spirituality and how important it is to realize that our connection to god or spirit or WHATEVER you want to call it is not dependent on ANY kind of intermediary and in fact is as close to us as our next breath.

Looking forward to hearing more about your spiritual epiphanies!

#4 Posted by Oliver Danni on January 23rd, 2009 8:43 pm | link

This is a beautiful post.

I personally am very comfortable calling myself religious and describing my faith practices as religious. To me, “spirituality” describes my connection to God/the Universe/Divine Energy/Source/Spirit/all of the above, and “religion” describes my COMMITMENT to maintaining that connection, regardless of whether I’m upholding that commitment using practices that a particular religious group teaches or practices I “made up myself”/”received independently”. I think it is relevant to consider that religion, in some form, IS important to a lot of people — most people don’t just decide they want to hang out with God, close their eyes, take a few deep breaths, and POOF! enlightenment! Most people need more than that — a community to worship with, specific prayer/magick/other practices that resonate with them, time and space for retreat, a rhythm of celebrating holidays and commemorating important events, among other things! — and religion provides that, whether it’s A Specific Religion or patchworked from different religions or entirely self-constructed.

I do think it’s likely that many people, without following a religion that was constructed for them to follow, would really not be able to make the commitment they need in order to practice their spirituality and maintain that connection. It’s much like how some people in an office are great at figuring out how to create more efficient systems and make things run more smoothly but might have less experience with the specific tasks that the system connects, and some people in the office are really good at specific tasks but not as good at the efficiency of the whole system without specific instructions. I know for me, I reached a point in my spiritual journey where I needed to get some really specific instructions from a religion to practice the stuff I had already figured out on my own. Of course, since I’m used to doing religion my way, I’m a lot more likely to say “Hey, I don’t really think Jesus said that, are you sure I need to do this?” than someone who grew up with the Word of God being shared only through the preacher and has a hard time separating the two…but I think that’s why religious leaders have such an important role, because there ARE a lot of people who need someone to help them know what to do to be on the right spiritual path.

And, maybe you can tell I’ve been thinking about this a lot, since apparently I’m a religious leader now and it’s important to me. *eek*

#5 Posted by Megan M. on January 24th, 2009 9:24 am | link

There are fundamental truths of the universe, and different people, different religions, and different spiritualities each interpret these truths differently. It’s like switching window managers but keeping the same kernel.

ADORABLE!

Your interpretation bit is just like what I do. I translate. It gets pretty easy when you’re used to it. (Some things don’t translate, but that’s usually a problem with the concept, not the framework.)

#6 Posted by Paul Maurice Martin on January 24th, 2009 9:50 pm | link

I share your views on much of this.

Question: does spirituality presume belief in “the divine?”

Alternately, if you’d be inclined to say that we directly experience the divine:

What makes the type of experience you have in mind as constituting the experience of the divine (sounds like it would be contemplative/meditative) necessarily “of the divine?” How does it tell us there’s such thing as the divine? Can knowledge be self verifying? If an experience carries the feeling of knowing something, does that constitute self verifying knowledge or something not quite that?

#7 Posted by Pace on January 25th, 2009 6:35 pm | link

@Joely, @James, @Chris, @Megan, and anyone else with a five-letter name: THANK YOU! This post was difficult for me to articulate and scary for me to post. Thank you. (:

@Oliver: I agree that religion can be useful and helpful. As long as religion SUPPORTS individuals’ spirituality instead of trying to CONTROL individuals’ spirituality, it’s all good.

@Paul: That’s a very good question. I don’t think spirituality presumes belief in the divine. All it presumes is openness to the divine — whatever that means to you. Belief is anti-openness, because it means you’re already closed off to the possibility that what you believe could be false.

The type of experience I have in mind is definitely contemplative and meditative. Truth-seeking. As for self-verifying knowledge, provability, and that sort of thing, I think that all paradigms, including scientific paradigms and faith-based paradigms, eventually bottom out in assumptions. Scientific paradigms assume an objective reality; they assume that what can be measured is true. Faith-based paradigms assume unobservable things about the nature of reality; they assume that what is believed is true. At the end of the day, I pick the assumptions that are more useful to me. I pick the set of assumptions that make me happier. And personally, I prefer to live in a universe filled with the divine, filled with oneness and connection, rather than a universe made of random atoms bouncing together like a pinball machine. I know it’s a story I tell — but every paradigm is nothing more and nothing less than a story. And that’s part of my story too. (:

#8 Posted by JoVE on January 26th, 2009 9:17 pm | link

This is very interesting and thought provoking. I like thought provoking. Like Paul, I have problems with the divine part (or maybe I just read his comment that way). I think you might have to believe in the divine to be open to it (though not believe anything in particular about it). And that’s where I kind of falter. But a lot of the other stuff makes sense, including Oliver’s point (with your clarification)

#9 Posted by Pace on January 27th, 2009 2:29 pm | link

@JoVE: I don’t believe in the divine, at least not in the sense most people use the word “believe” as it pertains to supernatural or unobservable things. I don’t have faith. I started out as a total skeptic and rationalist, then eventually opened myself up to the possibility of experiencing things outside of my scientific paradigm. I didn’t suddenly choose to believe in things, I just opened myself up a little more. Then I experienced things like magick, feeling connected to the universe, moving energy, and other things that are hard to describe. At first I needed to understand it, to try to explain how magick worked in terms of psychology. Explaining why I felt this sensation of connection in terms of my temporal lobe being stimulated. But eventually I stopped being so rigid in my paradigm, because it wasn’t serving me, and I adopted a more flexible “If it works, it works, regardless of whether I understand why it works” attitude, and I prefer it greatly. (:

#10 Posted by Pam on January 30th, 2009 9:50 am | link

This is a great explaination of what I have been ATTEMPTING to explain to people about my views on religion (as a Pagan people tend to get tangled in the terms “religion” when I use it because they don’t agree that it can be a religion) and spirituality and how, really, they are different and personal and intimate things…

Thanks!!

#11 Posted by Iron Pentacle | Pace and Kyeli on January 30th, 2009 6:31 pm | link

[...] week, Pace talked in depth about spirituality, both in general and personally. This kicked off a new series – we’re going to do a series of [...]

#12 Posted by Bart on February 11th, 2009 1:56 pm | link

OMG, I was kind of fascinated by most of your posts until I got to this piece of crap dribble. What color is the sky in your world anyway..

#13 Posted by Pace on February 11th, 2009 1:59 pm | link

@Bart: Why does it make you so angry?

#14 Posted by Kate Williams on July 19th, 2009 4:34 pm | link

Really appreciate your practical take on such emotionally charged topics. Distinguishing between religion, spirituality and personal growth is a useful way to begin gaining the ability to peacefully accept people’s different affiliations, beliefs, and perceptions. This acceptance leads to empathy. Being able to access empathy for others is critical if we want to universalize religious/spiritual teachings and learn from our different perspectives or “outfits”. . . .

Kate Williams’s last blog post..Heart of Money Pre-release Mistake! Oy!